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providers out there and emergency responders and it is in california the substantial or the equal of many third world countries in terms of military force that can be applied to a disaster. >> i'm lynn wilder, i'm the emergency management coordinate roar at san francisco general trauma center and i'm also representing the san francisco council of emergency partnership which is the group of emergency management coordinators from each of the hospitals throughout san francisco who mead regularly with dph and dem to plan and prepare for our medical response. >> as rob mentioned earlier, one of the primary reasons for the medical exchange is to get an understanding of the capabilities, what can the military bring and what are some of the challenges that we as civilians are going to face when we have this large number of casualties. so what i'd like to hear from our civilian
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panelists is what were some of our observations about the capabilities the military demonstrated down at moffatt >> i think one of the challenges the city faces in a big medical surge event is if patients have to be evacuated and the bridges were out and how would we do that? yesterday we saw a wide range of patient movement vehicles, basically, and it was great to see all those resources and be aware of them. we saw the dual use vehicle from the va that there was one in san francisco and there's one in palo alto and those can take litters of patients. we saw multiple helicopters and we saw the c130j all of those were introduced by very knowledgeable personnel that could take us through what the capabilities of each of them were.
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i also think that, you know, we saw that there were personnel that would come with those assets. so it wouldn't just be the assets for movement but also assets in terms of taking care of those patients: and that was really helpful in our planning because one of the things we worry about is how will we do handoffs, how will patients get taken care of if they are in critical states and how will they be main taepbed through deployments to other states. we also saw the mobile air medical facilities which was a big question in terms of if patients did have to get moved, where would they sit while we were trying to open up capacity in a hospital to take care of other type patients. it was
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the past planning for most 3 4 the hospitals has either been we will try to read it out from a major earthquake or whatever disaster occurs, we can shift and combine capabilities in ways that will change the basis of what we can do so that we can provide the most care for the maximum number of people and literally save lives in the process. it will change how we
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do things. it's also, we've been told for years that it's 72 to 96 hours before help arrives. we know there's a forward leaning capability and strategic thinkers throughout the whole chain and various levels of response and command on this that will bring those resources to bear as quickly as can possibly be arranged and properly handled. that kind of coordination and communication is going to make all the difference. we can still provide top level trauma care and still provide as the recovery unfolds the kind of primary care and other care that will need to happen when our infrastructure has been seriously impacted. so it really has shifted how we're thinking literally from a tactical, just immediately taking care of what's in front of us, to a strategic kind of plan that we can now look at and really do the best for the
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city. >> so the captain and the colonel, through the discussions that took place yesterday, what are some of the things you learned about relating to civilian issues that will exist and how will you be able to help? ?oo ?a northern california has rich and diverse medical response capabilities. it's impressive the types of capabilities, the number of assets, the number of people trained to do these things are. the california national guard has air and land assets that are substantial and can be rapidly deployed to assist the civil responders in their mission to move people, to get things set up, to establish common security. it's a partnership that really needs to happen and is natural. the governor controls the california national guard, he can make forces appear very rapidly in support of a regional disaster, a local emergency or wherever they are
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needed, and transportation, communication, security logistics capabilities that come to the table really augment the medical care that's being provided in the disaster scene. >> like colonel ingels, i was impressed by the robust, defined chain of command and a large response capable of being produced. however, in an overwhelming disaster things don't always go as planned and certainly our experiences in combat has showed us there and prior experience with disasters have outlined that even though there's a well-defined system of response it doesn't always work out. what i defined yesterday was that logistics problems may get in the way and interfere with medical surge planning as is
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outlined. putting resources where they are needed in a huge disaster may outstrip the ability of local authorities to do that because roads are out. the niche we have as the marine corps assets we have the ability to locate some of our resources like shock trauma platoons, that's what we do in combat and we have experience with that and that may be something that may be of benefit to this process. >> during the last panel, mr. cahen mentioned it's so important to understand the resources that his agency has versus the ones that the military has and he said at one point they started looking down in terms of typing, i have this, you have this, how are we going to respond and get the resources we need to deal with the incident. i'd like to hear from all of you what did you
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learn about what the other agencies' capabilities are and how did that open your eyes? >> yesterday we had a great opportunity to look at a variety of resources. in the midst of all the demonstrations that we had, we actually had an hour lecture on dsca, which is pretty incredible to get everything about dsca in one hour. it was a great effort by the folks who do that lecture. to show you how well i listened, i have some take away points on that. the first is that all disasters are local. the folks here in san francisco are going to be in charge from the minute the disaster happens and i think that that's really critical to understand. the local authorities evaluate the situation on the ground and execute what locally is available, then they evaluate shortfalls and what they have and then generate those requirements up through that
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defined chain of command, as i mentioned earlier. then once those agencies determine what those requirements are, they are given back to the city who employs those as they think they need to be deployed because, again, they are the eyes and understand the local situation. i think going through this that the navy and the marine corps, we're used to being in charge whenever we show up and we're not going to be in this situation. i think it's important for us to understand that and we do and i think we, if we were employed in this certainly would understand that particular chain of command and would be able to fit right in and execute as required by the local situation. >> let me reiterate that the local authorities need to know that the emergency managers, the first responders, are there to be in charge to run things
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in their local disaster. everyone else that rolls in behind are there to enable them to do that, to manage to get back to normal so all the forces that roll in can finally leave. the emergency managers need to remain in control, they need to be situationally aware, they need to be in communicate with their forces, they need to understand what assets can become available as they need them. again, they are primed, they have to be active and in place and everyone, everything everyone can provide to them, will help in their efforts to contain the disaster and get back to recovery. >> so one of the things that we learned yesterday is the military's very advanced in trauma care and blast injuries and other types of injuries that could happen in a large earthquake. in all planning we also have to consider other populations in san francisco and this was brought up in the hot wash
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yesterday. san francisco does have elderly populations, they have a lot of vulnerable populations, and we have to figure out if there can be integration with that as well. these are people we deal with on a daily basis and will have health issues in a disaster, especially if they can't get to their primary care doctors or get their education. another thing we took away was a 88 team deployment and a lot of the assets come with teams and they integrate well and how we would get the local teams to integrate with the disaster teams is important as well. i'm glad to hear about the local command and control because i think that would be the expectation, is that we would be requesting these resources to integrate into our local response. >> i think the other thing we lerped is that regardless of the acronym soup that we all
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speak in, in all of this planning and preparation when it all comes down to it, we all speak medical. when it gets down to actual patient care, we will work together very, very well. we found out about capabilities that are quite flexibility we can use to integrate military and state and national guard capabilities and resources to decompress our emergency departments if that's what the situation is; to offload hospitals that have had their infrastructure impacted that are no longer able to provide care, to provide critical care and just general medical surge for other types of injuries or chronic patients that can't get their needs met through any other means. so it's just a vast array of
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possible responses. the team i worked with and the other planners really got it when help arrives, they are going to be ready, willing and more than able to help us in the ways that we need. >> yesterday both the marine corps and the california air national guard brought some of their aviation assets and demonstrated those capabilities. miss wilder, earlier on you said game changing was a way to describe that. how do you feel being more aware of those assets and what they can do will affect your planning? >> it really has changed. i can tell you on the bus coming back from the actual exercise event and the exchange event, there were so many discussions about what we can do differently and how we can change our plans so that there are more options, different ways we can look at which hospitals are still standing and what capabilities they have and then how to augment those and supplement with strategic use of state and dod resources.
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and really looking at how can we make the best possible care system stand and deliver after a catastrophic earthquake. and that was extraordinary. it was really, you know, it changed the perspective. if you understand most hospitals deal with short term emergencies, we have things that happen that are usually 4 to 12 hours in length for the most part except for h1n1, which was so prolonged that it actually was a very different type of response for us. but all the other emergencies that we deal with are usually multi casualty incidents that are very short term in the initial sorting out and triage of those patients and getting them to definitive care. this type of situation requires us it think differently, very trat tee jikly, and plan our resource use and the evolving use of those resources, that it might be a big push for trauma care
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early on bringing in military assets to provide really strong triage, very clearly defined triage, of who needs what resources immediately and then using whatever we have at each of the hospitals and having that all staged so it's hopefully seamless for the patients that are coming to us needing care. >> doctor. >> i'm going to go back to my earlier theme if we were isolated because the brinks were down, it's great to know that the military has so many assets that can come and help us. one of the things not everybody knows is we only have one heilpad and that's in the va luckily our new mission bay hospital has another one. we have identified sites but it's something to think through. when we are going through our planning and evacuation planning, especially, thinking
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of all the different sites where patients can be evacuated will be an important planning consideration. but i would like to echo lan's thoughts that this was all exciting to think about and it was received very well. >> anything else, dan? >> as we did on the last panel, that elevator speech, what did you share, what was your big take away that you gave to your boss to say this was why this exercise was important and that take away. >> collaboration is key. jurisdictions need to work with one another, they need to understand who is in charge, what they've got, that goes from city to city, city to county, county to state, state to federal. everyone needs to be working together, understand who the partners are, what arrangement they are going to have for command and control, arrival of assets and things to deal with the local
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emergencies. things can go back in marin, california, lots of people are going to be rolling in. the time to form relationships and what one another can bring to the table is not when the disaster evolves but in anticipation of it. i think san francisco is doing a great job of getting all the partners together to understand more clearly what they can do with one another and what they can do to deal with an emergency and that just has to happen again and again and again until we are on very good terms with one another from emergency providers, military providers, and what can be brought to bear to deal with a regional emergency. >> i think the real key thing for our take away is we need to do this again and we need to get closer together and do more hands on actual utilization of those assets and start simulating some of the types of things we're talking about doing. you learn so much more when you are actually
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practicing and working together. so just like the communications exercise, we need to make it more real and really stand side by side and see what kinds of things come up in that environment and how we can work out those gaps. >> yeah, i would agree. i think my take away would be that we should exercise together, small table tops initially and we can always develop larger ones, to really understand the capabilities and further plan and also how integration would work during a big disaster. >> so first i would tell my boss, major general steve, sir, this was a very successful demonstration of our medical surge cape pblt and it was well done. but now we need to evolve and keep moving this forward. what we did on this particular time was stand-alone demonstrations of our particular capabilities. i
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think the next thing we need to do is a joint demonstration. for example, our shock trauma has many similarities to a dmat that might be a next step in the evolution of this type event. it also, after discussing with several members of the hospitals during the tour yesterday, it's clear that there are many other civilian military training opportunities that exist. those can be maybe collaboration between medical personnel in military and civilian hospitals and many other options like that are possible. >> thank you. for our guests, what questions do you have? again, we have some microphones that can go around, we have two up front. >> very interesting. i have a question, both lewis and i were
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down at katrina right after it happened and one of the issues, you know, there were many medical issues. one was pharmaceuticals. did you discuss in this pharmaceuticals and how you would get your pharmaceuticals? >> we didn't specifically discuss it. we did i think in the shock trauma platoon know about what medications are carried on the c130, what medications were available. during the hhs presentation there was talk about the large manufacturers, if there were problems getting medications, that the federal government could facilitate that. but it is a great point. it's something locally we are working on with our pharmaceutical group because it is a big concern if we do lose supply how do we replenish that. san francisco does not have a lot of storage space so we are not able to store medications to a great extent in the area. >> i was just going to echo, our capability does come with
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its own internal pharmaceutical supply, although it is limited and so that would be important for us to understand what the resupply process would be as we move forward on that. so we can certainly hit the ground running, but then we would need some sort shortly thereafter. >> mine is a two-part question. we've seen in ismat turkey in 1999 a number of walking wounded that will immediately overwhelm the medical response community and then how do you disallow them immediate health care and the specter of reality tv, so that would be the first part, managing expectation in our gold standard health care system. the other part of that response, to maximize the saving of lives, they actually severed limbs in the response process to maximize the safing lives. have we talked about indemnify case of our medical
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response teams post response? ?oo ?a we did not actually discuss indemnify case or any other legal or even ethical issues on a broader kail. all the hospitals do have plans to handle a surge of patients including a very large number of walking wounded. we assume they will arrive at the hospital starting immediately, even sometimes before the official announcement of a particular incident unless it's an earthquake where we feel the announcement of the incident. but the real key is that those plans will need to be immediately operational so that we can sort out who really does need to come in and get what level of care and that varies by facility, depending on their capabilities, along with hospital lockdown plans to secure the overall physical plant and make sure those capabilities remain intact for all sorts of threats. and the
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other key piece is dph is an immediate back up to that with the ability to use our clinics and our other partners to stand up potentially alternate care centers and other types of, depeplding on the situation, other types of areas where people can be triaged or get information or get care if necessary. so those plans are in place, we're constantly developing them because we have to really look and we don't have the ability to predesignate every site, after an earthquake we need to make sure each and every site we announce to the public is safe before it's announced so it's a complex type of situation with constant situational awareness that has to be included. >> i just wanted to add on to that, that dph has a great resource of clinics. we are working with our clinics to
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take on those potentially minor trauma victims that they can treat and offload the hospitals. it would be a matter of triaging them at the hospital level and get them over there. >> just one other key point on that. we would also be working very closely with our partners in dem and the communications sector to really get the word out through our non-emergency informationalized public messaging, whatever it takes to get the message out clearly, even if it's spray painted signage on the signs of buildings, we will get the word out where it is appropriate to go. >> we do have a very defined triage process that we've used in our, on our navy and marine corps side we're quite used to. it would be important to try, that's maybe another training thing we want to work on, that we collaborate and understand we're using the same system because we don't want to create two systems of triage within the city. that's a good way to
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create more chaos than there might ordinarily be. >> i'd like to follow-up on one of the things that was mentioned about the walking wounded. one of the things that came up after yesterday's after action group was this concept of different patient groups. in the military you have a fairly healthy soldier that you are going to be providing aid to. in san francisco we have young, we have old that have much more complex issues that you may need to deal with. given your capabilities, how would you address that? >> it's a significant concern although it may be a little bit artificial in that we do, our doctors and surgeons and nurses do take care of a wide number of population groups outside of active duty military either at their mtf's or in other previous medical care and disasters we have a experience with a wide range of third world countries and so on. we
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need to be sensitive on that but i don't believe there's a big training gap that exists in that setting. >> one of the other things that we're doing is also learning from our military partners. the event continues this afternoon with another part of the medical exchange where military subject matter experts are going to be presenting basically a grand rounds of what is new in trauma care from battlefield experience and bringing that to the civilian medical personnel, which this alone is an extraordinary opportunity and what we can do to capitalize on so many of the innovations that have been made in medical care have come from the military and we need to take that and learn from it and see what we can do to improve care over all. >> other questions from our guests? >> i just had a question, as
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you are moving patients from -- they are entering the facility, they are entering the system and then they start getting handed out and eventually, i suppose, evacuated, did you guys talk about patient records and how you are tracking these patients? >> we did touch on it a bit during the exchange we had at noon. the national system is run through jtap which is a fantastic system and we've seen it in a few of the exercises around. right now the region is doing a feasibility study if jtap would be feasible for us to use and if it is, it would be fantastic. our concern is if it's only used during a sdas ster and it's not used on a daily basis, are you going to have to spend a lot of time training? it's not really hard to use but there are some complexities with it. so it is a big job in the city
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tracking patient movement and we are addressing it. and i think we're waiting for the feasibility study to kind of determine what our next step would be. >> i think there was another question here. yes. >> yes, we know from hsda studies that for a very large earthquake you can expect perhaps tens of thousands of individuals that will need hospital treatment and hospitals are generally fairly full anyway. was there any discussion of altered standards of care during your workshops? >> not during the workshop specifically but it is something we've discussed at our hospital council group on and off and it is something the counseling association of hospitals is working on as well. i think we have to think as a group locally what type of policy we would want to have.
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i don't know that we'd have an alternate standard but we might have a policy if there was a huge medical surge event what kind of standards we would be willing to accept and that would be working on in conjunction with all of our partners. >> that's probably one of the most difficult and controversial subjects in disaster medical response right now because it can be so difficultment until you are there in the situation and know exactly what resources you have and what your capabilities are day by day it really will change so much. so that's why bringing in partners early to offload and shift where we can provide care will make a huge difference. we don't ever want to see providers making the kind of decisions that had to be made during katrina and other events. instead of having a

December 12, 2012 12:00am-12:30am PST

TOPIC FREQUENCY San Francisco 10, Us 8, California 5, Katrina 1, Dan 1, Steve 1, Lynn Wilder 1, Mr. Cahen 1, Wilder 1, Dsca 1, Lewis 1, Ingels 1, Ismat Turkey 1, City 1, Marin 1, The City 1, Moffatt 1, Jikly 1, Northern California 1, The Navy 1
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